97' Buell Lightningin kannet 98' Sporsteriin

[saatananteri]

Onkos vanhemman Lightningin SE kansia Sportsteriin asentaneita voorumilla? Minkälainen puhde on ja mitä huomioitavaa ensin tulee mieleen? N2-nokat toiminevat mainiosti noiden kanssa. Käyvätkö Sportsterin työntötangot vai nou? Mäntäpolitiikasta myös ehdotuksia otetaan vastaan! Jos on yber-iso projekti niin siirrän ajokauden jälkeiseen aikaan

[hemuli]

Tässä Mikiran joskus postaama selvitys Sportster/Buell kansista - katso punainen teksti. Eli sopii heittämällä sporttiin ja vakio 1200 tasalakimännillä (ei siis voi käyttää konversiomäntiä) staattiseksi puristussuhteeksi tulee 10:1. On myös saatavana mäntiä joilla saadaan 10,5:1 puristus.

Tämän on selostuksen sportsterin kansista on kirjoittanu joku kaveri NRHS pajalta, kopion sen jenkkiläseltä sportsteri pajalta.

GENERAL INFO ...

There are 3 generations of Evo Sportster heads:

1986-1990 (4 speeds)
1991-2003 (5 speeds)
2004-present (rubber mounts)

Interchangeability:

Within a given generation, the heads are mechanically interchangeable between the different models, i.e. all bolt holes line up and no needed features are missing. Valve geometry is the same: 27 degree intake & 31 degree exhaust for a 58 degree included angle, and the location of the valve tips is the same.

The rocker box bolt pattern has not changed across any of these generations; a 1986 lower rocker box will bolt right up to a 2006 head and vice-versa. The only thing you need to be aware of is that the crankcase breathing arrangement has changed at each generation. 4-speed models provided no facility in the head for a crankcase breather. 5-speed models incorporated crankcase breathers into the carb mount bolts, and use a different middle rocker box that has a check valve incorporated (aka "umbrella" valve). Rubber mount models use an air/oil separator & check valve unit bolted into the lower rocker box, and do away with the middle rocker box, using a different top cover.

91-03 heads have been successfully fitted to 86-90 models. The major difference you need to be aware of is that the spacing between the pushrod holes is different between a 4 speed and a 5 speed. This is because the cam box geometry is different and the pushrods are at a different angle. So pay attention to the potential for pushrod rub where they pass through the heads into the rocker box.

04-up heads have been successfully fitted to 91-03 models. The new heads have the right front bolt hole relocated inboard 1/4", and also use 7/16 fasteners as opposed to the 3/8 fasteners used on the 91-03 models. You can either modify your existing front mount, or more recently a new mount has become available that solves this issue. Also, be aware that the 04-up heads have larger fins and will overhang 91-03 cylinders somewhat, most noticeable on the left side. You can use your stock 91-03 rocker boxes or use the 04-up rocker boxes, either will work fine.

Any time you're putting a different set of heads on your bike, you need to be aware of the chamber size & shape and how it relates to the piston you're using, to make sure they're mechanically compatible and will give the desired compression ratio.


Buell Heads ...

There are 2 generations of Buell heads:

1995-2002 (tube frame models, aka "tubers")
2003-present (XB models)

95-02 Buell heads can be considered the same generation as 91-03 Sportster heads. The rocker box and head breather arrangements are identical, as are the fin sizes. The front mount holes have the same spacing as the 91-03 Sportster heads but use 7/16 NC fasteners (exception: 95-96 S2 models which use a 3/8 fastener on one side and a 7/16 fastener on the other).

03-present Buell heads can be considered the same generation as 04-present Sportster heads in that they use large fins and 7/16 front mount fasteners with the right front mount hole moved inboard 1/4". The main difference is that the XB head does not provide head breather/carb mount bolt holes. The bosses are cast in, however, and the holes can be drilled and tapped. Buell XB models don't need these bolt holes due to the downdraft fuel injection system they come with. Crankcase breathing is provided on stock XB models through the tops of the rocker box covers.


SPECIFIC INFO ...

883 HEADS (ALL GENERATIONS): 883 heads all have a small, 49cc chamber that's approximately 3" in diameter to match the 3" bore of the 883. The chamber is also shallower than the chamber in any other Sportster head. Valvetrain geometry is the same as the other heads except that small 1.580" intake & 1.350" exhaust valves are used, and the valves are longer to work with the shallower, smaller diameter chamber.

In stock configuration, these are the worst ports of any XL head, primarily due to the way the bowl area squeezes down to the small diameter valve. This arrangement causes a lot of turbulence. The heads respond well to a good porting and seat blending job, particularly when used with a larger valve that better matches the bowl size. The seats can accomodate the standard XLH1200 valve sizes (1.715 intake/1.480 exhaust) and special longer "conversion valves" are available to do this upgrade.

When used in an 883 to 1200 conversion, reverse dome (dish) conversion pistons are available to give a workable compression ratio. Alternatively, the chamber can be relieved and the heads used with flat top pistons.

These heads have an advantage over the XLH1200 hemi chamber head in that the 3" diameter chamber provides a "squish band" around it's perimeter when placed over the larger 1200 bore. The squish band results in more turbulence and a more efficient chamber. However, the longer valves in these heads are also a disadvantage in that piston to valve contact issues are much more likely. Be concerned about this if the cams you're using have a high TDC lift figure on one or both valves.

Most sets of 883 heads you come across will be silver in color. 883R models have black 883 heads. All are easily identified by the "883" script cast into them adjacent to the chamber.

88-03 XLH1200 HEADS: These heads have a 67cc hemispherical chamber, i.e. it's a round bowl with no squish band. Hemi chambers provide maximum valve unshrouding but also tend to have poorer chamber turbulence. The 67cc volume gives about 9:1 compression with flat tops at 1200cc. Domed pistons are readily available to raise this number up to 10:1 or higher. The pistons designed for this chamber have a radiused edge on the domes to fit well inside the hemi chamber shape, but the irregularity of the chamber (which is just a casting) makes it impossible to achieve a good squish band.

Valve sizes are 1.715" intake and 1.480" exhaust. The stock seats can support only slightly larger sizes, we fit them with 1.760" intakes and 1.530" exhausts when doing a Stage 2 job (for Stage 3 we change the seats).

The ports on these heads are not particularly good, they have something of a squared off bowl and a low floor. In other words, these are areas where they need more material.

These heads are all black with polished fins.

95-96 BUELL S2 HEADS: These heads are identical to the 88-03 XLH1200 heads in all respects except that one of the front mount bolt holes is 7/16" NC instead of 3/8" NC. So don't be fooled; not all "Buell Heads" are higher performance than Sportster heads.


96-03 LIGHTNING HEADS: This is a head that came out in 1996 on the Buell S1 Lightning model, as well as the 1200S Sportster Sport model. The 1200S version is black with polished fins and has dual plugs, the second plug being accessible through the hole in the top of the rocker box. The Buell S1 version is silver and has a single spark plug. Versions of this head were also sold in the Screaming Eagle catalog. Early versions were silver and carried the "Lightning" script above the pushrod area. A version was sold in black polished with no script. And finally, a black polished version was sold with the "Screamin Eagle" script and dual plugs. Also, the Buell Blast comes with a version of this head.

The valve sizes are 1.715" intake and 1.480" exhaust, identical to the 88-03 XLH1200 head. The same seats are used, so Stage 2 Lightning heads get 1.760" intakes and 1.530" exhausts. The ports are also identical to the 88-03 XLH1200 head. Later SE versions were advertised as having 8% higher flow than stock XLH1200 heads, but as someone who's flow tested lots of them, I just haven't seen it. the range of numbers I get has been the same.

This only place this head is different from the 88-03 head is in the chamber. Extra material was added, as well as a 10 degree squish shelf, bringing the volume down to about 62cc. This gives around 10:1 when paired with flat top pistons. The squish band though does nothing with a flat top. So the performance increase from this head comes entirely from an extra point in compression ratio.

This extra material in the chamber somewhat shrouds the valves, however, hurting low lift flow. It gets especially bad when oversize valves are fitted. When putting larger valves into Lightning heads, we always unshroud the chamber around the valve heavily to improve flow. This of course raises the chamber volume and requires us to deck the head significantly to get the volume back to 62cc. Often we'll end up recutting the squish band to 15 degrees and just size the chamber out to 67cc instead, and then put the customer into a Thunderstorm type domed piston. We do, however, offer a 10 degree piston designed for the stock Lightning head that offers 10.5:1 compression at 62cc.


98-02 BUELL THUNDERSTORM HEADS: This was the second generation high performance head to come out on Buells. It was introduced in 1998 on the S1W and S3/S3T (the S1 and the M2 retained the Lightning heads in 1998). In 1999, all models came with Thunderstorms and it remained that way through the 2002 model year.

This head went back to the 67cc volume and instead used a domed piston to raise the compression ratio. The advantage to this is that it heavily unshrouded the valves. A 15 degree squish shelf was incorporated into the chamber and matched to a 15 degree dome angle on the piston. Also, valve sizes were increased to 1.810" intake and 1.575" exhaust. Ports were improved as well, particularly in the bowl.

The squish shelf on a Thunderstorm head is still a casting, however, and as such it's not very accurate. There's a good sized overhang between the deck and the perimeter of the swuish shelf, and core shift often makes the squish shelf uneven from side to side. So while it's nice to have a squish shelf and the turbulence it generates, it's effectiveness is limited unless you remachine it, which generally requires .030 to .040 to be removed from the deck. Still, this head performs substantially better than the Lightning or XLH1200 head.

All Thunderstorm heads are black powder coated, without highlighted fins.

03-PRESENT BUELL XB HEADS: This head is characterized by it's pear-shaped 62cc bathtub chamber and large 1.810 intake/1.575 exhaust valves. 7mm valve stems (versus 5/16 on prior heads) and small beehive springs were introduced on these heads as well.

The 62cc chamber gives about a 10:1 compression ratio when used with flat top pistons. NRHS offers a forged domed piston for this chamber to raise this to 10.5:1. The bathtub shape with flat (0 degree) squish bands eliminates the core shift issues with the 15 degree cast squish bands of the Thunderstorm heads, and also the bathtub shape allows the chamber to be sized down to 62cc without excessive valve shrouding. Finally, the bathtub shape offers much more material for machining in 15 or 30 degree dome cuts and or chamber relief cuts, making this head an excellent candidate for effective chamber work. Angling the squish band in an accurrate, machined fashion, improves on a 0 degree setup by more directly aiming the fuel coming out of the squish band at the flame front, and also reducing the shelf the air must go around when entering or exiting the chamber.

Ports were improved over the Thunderstorm head by way of a more gradual, constant arc in the roof through the bowl area, as well as a raised floor at the inlet. Both of these things help reduce turbulence by reducing the length difference between the roof and the floor, thus making the velocities at both places closer to the same.

This head is 3.670" in height, which is .020 shorter than the prior XL and Buell heads. by itself, this is not enough to necessitate shorter pushrods. If the head is decked, and used with thin gaskets to optimize squish clearance, pushrod length can become an issue.

These heads are ideal for 883 to 1200 conversions as they're all silver in color, although we've been known to black powder coat them for 883R models. As mentioned earlier, the carb mounting/breather holes need to be drilled and tapped to use them on a Sportster (we provide this service for free for heads purchased from us). The head is only sold disassembled, but NRHS offers them fully assembled with high flow stainless valves for the same price that all of the individual pieces cost at the dealer.

04-PRESENT XL1200R/C HEADS: These heads are identical to the 03-up Buell XB heads, except that the carb mount/breather holes are already drilled and tapped, and the finish is black with polished fins. Also, the rear XB head has a provision for a head temp sensor, and this head does not, but this is normally not needed on a Sportster application.

LATEST SE HEAD: These heads use the same casting as 04-up XL1200R/C heads. The ports and valve sizes remain unchanged, and the flow rates are identical.

An additional .050" additional has been removed from the decks, which makes them .070 shorter than 86-03 XL heads. This provides a 55cc chamber and 10.5:1 when used with flat tops. However, the decking is not without side effects; in particular, short pushrods will likely be needed (available from NRHS) and valve to piston clearance will become a concern when using cams with more than stock overlap.

Also, these heads have different springs and valves. The valves are the same size, 1.810" intake/1.575" exhaust, but are made of stainless steel. The spring is a larger beehive with about 170lbs on the seat, versus about 135 for the stock head, and the spring pocket has been cut down about .120 to allow more spring travel. This lowering of the seat pocket makes the roof of the port thinner and limits how much it can be raised when the head is ported.

All of these heads are black with polished fins. A "Screamin Eagle" script has been fastened to the front head in the area just above the pushrod tubes.

[saatananteri]

Olis aika vaihtaa nuo kannet hiljalleen kiinni... =D Samalla kertaa voisi vaihtaa männät joista squish band noissa salamointikansissa hyötyisi. Vinkkiä passeleista männistä olisi mainio saada. Taitaa olla porautus edessä tulevien mäntien mukaan vai ovatko vakioporaukselliset tarvikemännät eksakteja mitoiltaan? (veikataan ettei...) Liki sama vaiva kun anyways hoonaus+renkaat olisi tullut vaihdettua...

PS. Onko N2 edelleen tuolla konstruktiolla passeli vai pitäisikö tarttua myyntipalstan N8-nokkiin, notta että.

[viltsu]

Eikös tuo sinun pyöräsi ole XL1200S?

Tuossahan punaisen tekstin ensimmäisessä lauseessa sanotaan, että siinä on samat Lightning kannet kuin Buellissa. Liekö noita silloin kovin paljon hyötyä vaihtaa..

[saatananteri]

Ei ole S-malli, nuo takapamput hämäävät - ne ovat S-mallista "napatut"...

[hemuli]

No äkkiä tulee mieleen niinkin älytön ajatus kuin että hanki siihen ne -97 Buelliin tarkoitetut männät ...

Paljonko sillä koneella on nyt ajettu? Jos jo kymmeniä tuhansia niin kannattaa saman tien vetää pytyt seuraavaan ylikokoon niin saat välykset kohdalleen.

N8 nokat toimii oikein mukavasti 10,5:1 puristuksilla, N2:sta ei ole kokemusta. N8:t on ainakin lähempänä Buellin alkuperäisiä arvoja.

[nicnac]

En nyt muista ihan varmasti, mutta eikö vanhempien buellien nokat oo aikalailla nuotten SE497:n kaltaiset. Saa ny nähdä puhunko läpiä päähäni.

Mullakin olis myynnis kunnon nokat...ei mitään lälläri kamaa

[mikira]

Eikös lightining koneisissa buelleissa ollu N4 nokat vakiona?

[nicnac]

No nuo SE49t:t on lähes samat nokat...jotkut on väittäny että olisivat jopa saman tehtaan tuotoksia. Tiedä nyt sitten. Ajoituksethan niissä nokkakortin mukaan on pari astetta eri...jenkit ainakin puhuvat että ne buellin nokat on SE Bolt-in:t.

[saatananteri]

No äkkiä tulee mieleen niinkin älytön ajatus kuin että hanki siihen ne -97 Buelliin tarkoitetut männät

Hyvä ehdotus, ja mitä ilmeisin vaihtoehto tuohon... =D

...Paljonko sillä koneella on nyt ajettu? Jos jo kymmeniä tuhansia niin kannattaa saman tien vetää pytyt seuraavaan ylikokoon niin saat välykset kohdalleen.

...ylikokokoon kannattaa juu surauttaa, fillari on saksantuonti, vm.98 ja saapui sigma-mittarilla varustettuna eli kilometrimäärä on suuri arvoitus.

[hemuli]

Tietysti mittaamallahan se selviäisi pitääkö porata, välys kun on aina männässä eikä sylinterissä jos ymmärrät mitä tarkoitan. Mutta ei se haittaakaan tee vetää seuraavaan ylikokoon, joutuu vaan juoksemaan koneistamolla.

[saatananteri]

Laskeskelin N2-nenien sopivuutta 10:1 rutuille mitkä käsittääkseni olivat Lightningissa, 192.18 PSI:tä tarjosi... Taitaa mennä hieman riskirajoille. N8 voisi siis olla the juttu. (http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm)

Mitäs sanoo mestarit köyhän miehen liikkuvien kevennyksestä eli alumiinisista työntötangoista? Lämpölaajeneminen näemmä tuplat mitä teräksellä, tosin ilmeisesti huomioitu esim. Andrewsin osissa, entäs mekaaninen kestäminen vrt. terästönärit? (säädettäviä en haluaisi eikä niitä tuohon konstruktioon suositellakaan)

[hemuli]

Meidän perheen ainoassa toimivassa Sportsterissa on alutangot yhdessä N8 nokkien ja muutaman muun pikku jutun lisäksi - hyvin kestää. Kaikki venttiilikoneistoon kohdistuvat järjen rajoissa olevat kevennystoimenpiteet ovat hyväksi, säästää niin nokkia kuin nostajiakin ja mahdollistaa paremmin kierrättämisen ilman valve floatia. Toinen hyvä on titaaniset ylälautaset venttiilijousille.

[saatananteri]

Kiittää neuvoista, ehkä sitä osaa itekkin vielä joku kerta muutakin kuin kysyä...

[Sam01]

Vanha viisas neuvohan on että jos mietit kahden nokan välillä niin valitse se miedompi, rallikoneet sitten taas toinen juttu. Luulis N4:set tai bolt on'tkin hyvin toimivan tolla kokoonpanolla.